triadruid

Well, her journal is full of what I'd consider shoddy scholarship/poor logic, but that throw-away line in a comment thread (::edit:: link) really tweaked my WTF-meter.

Okay, I get that she's of the RadFem "all hetereosexual sex is rape" paradigm, and that she thinks post-modern feminists are a bunch of sell-outs, but I'm not clear on how queer theory acquires her wrath... ah. Having refound her comment and a blurb on one of the books she recommends, it appears to have something to do with permissive gender identity...

Edited Date: 2008-03-28 03:59 pm (UTC)

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Radical feminism prefers to dump on queer theory, because queer theory allows me to say "I'm not a woman, and I piss on your gender roles. I don't have to count how many times the people with boobies speak versus the times that people without boobies speak and then compare because in my queer brain, they're all people, and there's no point in differentiating them by body type when examining power dynamics."

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Also, you spelled

oreibasia wrong. Stop trying to oppress my womyn-systers with your penis.

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rougewench.livejournal.com

She struck me as a very angry, bitter idiot (and as much of an asshole as those she's seeking to vilify)...and a particularly gutless one, considering she deletes any comment that in any way disagrees with her point of view or points out that she is pretty much completely full of shit.

D.

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Once again, you say it better than I could, D.

She DOES have some good points. I just can't sift them out of the crap in swift enough fashion to make it worth it...

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druidevo.livejournal.com

Was it just me or did that essay take everything out of context. It was almost like she didn't comprehend how 'normal' people relate to each other, or that it's possible to have a feminist 'world' that still has conflict.

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...try as I might, I have literally no defense against this statement.

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There's almost certainly some valid points in her critique: for example, why is Mal in charge? Is it significant that Zoe is a black woman under his authority? Why is Simon the Older Doctor and River the Fucked-Up Little Sister, and not the other way around?

But she ladles it through such vitriol and unacknowledged bias that it's nearly impossible to read, if you don't already subscribe to her worldview.

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rougewench.livejournal.com

There are some interesting points she does raise, but she raises them in a fashion that makes them literally inaccessible to a person of reason, mostly as she muddies the waters terribly with her extremely radical bias.

However, you might find this response to that post amusing.

D.

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_allecto_ readily acknowledges that her POV is four decades old.

Radical Feminism had its time and place, and served a critically-important function of moving the state of humanist thought forward. However it has, in (not only) my estimation, long since ceased to be a productive philosophy, because there has been so much progression in gender- and sexual-identity-related issues since the 1970s that RadFems like

_allecto_ would deny or repudiate.

Also, she is a classic example of how the philosophical continuum forms a circle, in which if you go far enough to the radical left you find yourself a reactionary conservative.

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Fun Fact: The 'Y' in womyn symbolizes latent male chromosome envy.

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No argument with any of that.

Also, when I received this comment by email over at gmail, the gmail ad that popped up on the top of the screen says "Be the Woman Men Love. www.DatingWithoutDrama.com. Men Don't Fear Commitment With the Right Woman! Show Him..." and then it trails off. In context, I find that wildly amusing and mildly horrifying. I almost want to click the link to see what the tenor of the advice is that they're giving, but on the other hand, I hate to contribute to anybody making money off of that pitch...

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druidevo.livejournal.com

Actually the Older Doctor/ fucked up sister makes perfect sense if your trying to say that a man's abilities are encouraged by the state/status quo, but a woman's are adulterated by it, in spite of (or maybe because of) her being the intellectual superior.

I always thought that Zoe was mostly not wanting to have to deal with all the bull that comes with being in charge, so she let Mal do it....

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Oooof. That's deep.

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(also, this icon is doing my part to keep men objectified and hypersexualized)

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You take that back! It's a pictogram of my mighty pubic mound and thighs.

(Probability that this comment thread is going nowhere good: 87%.)

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I <3 Naked Mal.

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Oppressyr.

89% and rising...

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I saw that comment about wishing she lived in the 70s. It made a certain amount of horrifying sense...

Edited Date: 2008-03-28 05:13 pm (UTC)

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Weren't they a heavy metal band from Swëdën?

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I'll take it back, front, top, or bottom, anyway you care to give it.

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... and we just hit 100%.

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Sorry, I haven't had my coffee yet, so I'm still a bit slow.

Err... wait! No! I mean, "That's what she said."

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Which essay were you referring to? I scanned the page but missed the part about queer theory.

I wouldn't call that blog a representative example of "radical feminism"-- I consider myself a radical feminist, and I find RF positions quite rational. RF, as I understand it, says the entire system is set up by and for patriarchy, and it needs to be remade in a non-patriarchal way--a radical reordering of society. I personally find RF and queer theory very compatible. But maybe that's just me.

Rather, that's a self-declared "lesbian separatist" blog. Separatist ideology is not always distinguishable from hate speech. :(

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Interesting, because while I don't always agree with what you have to say it's always thought-provoking and engaging. This was more like listening to a racist screed with the serial numbers filed off...

If you're asking where I was getting the perspective rad-fem has on queer theory, It's found in this comment:
http://users.livejournal.com/_allecto_/34718.html?thread=357534#t357534
The actual synopsis is not so much "debunking" as "showing it to be misogynist", but I think that amounts to the same thing in allecto's case.

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lilia-blackbear.livejournal.com

How utterly biased! I had to stop reading after the bit about all prostitution being rape. Having studied female sex workers of the Dominican Republic and Thailand, and currently studying the travesti of Brazil, I find it absolutely naive and sad that people can think of all sex workers as victimized, powerless, hopeless individuals. Approaching any analysis of people through an already held belief that the people being analyzed are dupes is no way to approach understanding.

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Thanks for the link. That whole comment was one huge WTF?! for me.

That ninny does not speak for radical feminists! That is lesbian separatism which to me, as an out queer & proud person, borders on hate speech. I have personally found radical feminists to support queer theory. At least in the Third Wave. I really think the Second Wave had already run its course at least 20 years ago and badly needed updating. That stuff is so 20th century. If she keeps regressing, maybe she'll argue for women's suffrage...

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I don't always agree with what you have to say

I was wondering why you never friended me...

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Approaching any analysis of people through an already held belief that the people being analyzed are dupes is no way to approach understanding.

*applause*

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Actually, I did, but your posting frequency was overwhelming, so I unfriended. It's nothing personal, by any means...I just don't have time for everything on LJ that I want to read... but that's what filters are for, so back you go on Secondary. :)

Edited Date: 2008-03-28 07:48 pm (UTC)

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Hi! If you read my comments above which were dismissive of Radical Feminism's relevance, I would like to clarify that I was referring specifically to what you call "Second Wave" radical feminism.

(Nobody called it "Second Wave" at the time, that I recall.)

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nataliesee.livejournal.com

but that throw-away line in a comment thread (::edit:: link) really tweaked my WTF-meter.

Huh. I haven't read the books she lists, but the one with the blurb you linked to has some mid-90's MacKinnon/Dworkin perspective with a side of Robin Morgan. I can imagine the direction THAT collection takes.

but I'm not clear on how queer theory acquires her wrath...

I wonder if she's ever read any herself. Probably not.

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tessagratton.livejournal.com

On the other hand, she did watch Firefly herself and managed to totally miss the point. I wouldn't put it past her to do the same with queer theory. ;)

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zylch.livejournal.com

Somehow, I have a feeling from the commentary that No Good will come of my trying to read the original article. So for once, I won't click the internet.

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Thanks... I'm surprised to hear I posted too often... I've been posting a lot more seldom lately, I've gone for long stretches without saying anything. Maybe at that time I was going through a temporary flurry of activity...

Thanks for the shout out in your post! I think the truth is kind of nuanced. Lesbian separatism started as an outgrowth or spinoff of RF, and I can see how someone could keep on invoking RF even after they've gone off the deep end of LS.

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